Caroline Barrett: Sleep & Sobriety

Alanna McGinn  0:00  
What's keeping you up at night? Hello and welcome to the bedtime edit podcast. I am your host, Alanna McGinn, and today we are talking about midlife and drinking and recovery and sobriety. We're going to touch on how as we age and transition through menopause. Alcohol affects us different physically. I know it does me. I'll talk about that and how it affects our sleep. Obviously, we're going to talk about the new sober curious trend, and how Gen Z, and all the way from Gen Z to Gen X, really are jumping on that trend. And today I am joined by recovery coach Caroline Barrett, from sober me. Caroline spent her early 20s navigating life with alcohol as a constant companion, finding herself increasingly reliant on alcohol to cope, she realized she needed to make a change and embark on her recovery journey. Eight years ago today, she is passionate about helping others find freedom from addiction, and as a recovery coach, she provides compassionate guidance and support to individuals seeking to achieve and maintain sobriety. Hi, Caroline, thanks so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. I appreciate this. So in true transparency, I will be honest, I'm not a big drinker. I've never really been a big drinker, but I know many who are making changes to their relationships with drinking, whether that is sobriety or, you know, the trend so precurious As we age, as we're going through midlife, I'm in that midlife stage, and I'm surrounded by many midlife women. And, you know, a constant conversation we're having is, is that shift of how alcohol now affects us physically, mentally, that maybe it didn't in our 20s. So this is what you do. This is you're helping people as a recovery coach. But can you first share a little bit about your journey with drinking and sobriety?

Caroline Barrett  1:53  
Sure can. So I started drinking in high school, but I wasn't doing it on a regular basis in high school, it's when I started working in the restaurants in my early 20s. That's when it was more of a regular thing. I had met a guy who was became one of my best friends for a very long time. He had said to me, I'm going to teach you how to drink. I drink every single night. The reason why I say that is because it took me one or two drinks and I would feel it right away, whereas I my impression of what he was saying was saying was, like, you're gonna end up drinking 10. It's gonna take you, like, 10 drinks before you start to feel it. So it hit me really hard in my early 20s, everyone was together. Everyone was meeting each other after the like, after our shifts, and even in our day off, we'd go into the bar and go and see our friends that were working there. And so it was a real community of drinking all the time. So that's how I started, and then it just kind of spiraled from there. Like I always tell people though that I was an alcoholic before I picked up the drinks. Interesting, yeah, like the characteristics that I had before led me to drinking as an adult.

Unknown Speaker  2:56  
And what were some of those characteristics, you

Speaker 2  2:59  
know, I was uncomfortable in my own skin, like I, you know, I was not saying that it's always going to be like that for everybody, but for me, it was like I was uncomfortable my own skin. I felt I was funnier when I was drinking. I was more included when I was I have a big group of friends in high school, but I just felt more included. I felt more it was easier for me to talk to guys like it was easier for me to kind of just, I relaxed more. I became a totally different person. So, and I think, just, I have always had an addictive personality, like I smoked for many, many years. I started smoking when I was 15. I smoked a pack, a pack and a half a day. So I quit that when I was 30. And, you know, like I just clenched onto things that made me feel good, and those are pretty much the characteristics that I saw in myself that led to later on down the road, like meeting new people and drinking with these people and continued, continued into an every day thing, whether I was sick, whether I was sad, whether I was happy, didn't matter. I was drinking all the time. So I started off with coolers, and then I grew into wine. I changed into wine, and then I, you know, like I was working in bars and other bars that you could drink while you were working. So that made it even worse, because you're drinking, you're doing shots, you're kind of, you're growing your like, knowledge of other types of alcohol that are out there, I always stuck more to coolers and wine, but it just I was doing more things that were kind of going down that slippery slope. Was it

Speaker 1  4:28  
just social for you, or did you find then that you were starting to do it by yourself too? I

Speaker 2  4:32  
started doing it by myself. So that took a little bit for me to start doing it by myself, but I had no problems. People would say to me, Oh, I never drink when I'm by myself. And I was like, kind of like, kept quiet because I was drinking. I was had no problems drinking by myself. Then I moved to Vancouver. So I moved to Vancouver to go to college, and that I was by myself. So I had my parents friends who were fantastic. I lived with them and made friends out there, but I was always just drinking by myself every single. The night. So it just, I had no problems, you know, I'm very independent person as it is, like, I have no problems even going to a restaurant by myself, you know, like, because I traveled for work for many years, so I'm used to that stuff. So for me, it was just kind of like, okay, I'm just gonna keep going. You

Speaker 1  5:14  
know, a lot of times it's, it's that term, you know, hitting that rock bottom. Like, was there a moment like that? For you why you started then making the change?

Speaker 2  5:22  
No, it was actually a moment like even that was probably about 23 because I went, I went to Vancouver when I was 23 so let's say 2324 I finished school that day, and I wanted to go the mall. Mall was walking distance from where I lived, and I was like, Oh, I gotta go home and have a drink before I go the mall. And I remember thinking, why am I thinking this? Why do I Why is this? Am I rearranging my time? Why can't I just go the mall and then go home and have a drink? But I had to go home first and have a drink, so that was kind of a triggering moment. But and then thinking, one day I will never drink again. But I remember thinking it, but not really like it rolled off my back. It was more down the road. I said it once when I was about 28 and then after that, when I was 30, I went out drinking with my cousin in Vancouver and a bunch of my girlfriends. And I woke up and I was like, one day I'm never gonna drink again. And then my cousin said, okay, and I was serious, I meant it, and I knew, and I must have attracted it, because it took seven years, but it did end up happening. So good

Speaker 1  6:21  
for you. That's amazing. And then now the journey of you becoming a recovery coach and helping others. So how did that start?

Speaker 2  6:28  
So I have my brother. I was just saying that my brother is a recovering alcoholic as well, so we struggled a lot, like as a family, we struggled a lot with him in his drinking, because it was really excessive. We have an uncle that was an alcoholic as well, and he takes a lot after him, and I think I must take a lot after him as well, but not I was never to the degree as my brother, so it was very stressful. And then my best friend, who's a guy, and he's a part of this whole journey too, he struggled a great deal as well. He actually passed away in 2019 from a drug COVID, sorry, thank you. And so I just, but I always thought to myself, if something ever happened to them, never really thinking about myself, but thinking about them. If something ever happened, I'm gonna have to get I want to give back like I've been, this has been my whole life as it is, so I might as well give back what I can. So that was brought to my attention later on down the road, that there's sober coaches. And I was like, Well, that's what I've been doing the whole time. So I might as well just like, do it. Like, go ahead and do it. I've been doing this for so many years. So I looked up schools, and I actually, I went to the school, and I I've done quite a few courses on it. So yeah, so that was it. That was my, this is part of my, my journey of helping others. So

Speaker 1  7:38  
that's amazing. And do you see, you know, with your clientele, that women that are in their midlife what kind of leads them to get to that place of, okay, I need to make some changes, and I need to get sober,

Speaker 2  7:51  
I think, like for somebody, even for myself, it was getting up in the morning and the depression that I just felt so disappointed and Angry in myself that I did it. So I think sometimes that like it changes your life, like it changes the way you eat, the way you take care of yourself. You don't go in the gym so much anymore, you know, or you do, and it's just not you're not getting the same effects as you would if you were not drinking and eating healthy. For me, I was eating poutine all the time. That was my hangover food so, and I've only had it twice in the eight, almost eight and a half years since I've been sober because I just craved it, because I was just, you know, it's been a while. So, um, that's those things like that, like just your life, and it's affects relationships. It really affects relationships a lot of the time. And like, relationships with your husband, your wife, your kids, your parents, your siblings, even work as well. So, you know, just going through all that stuff, you just it's an eye opener. And I think those are triggering things to help you realize that maybe you should make some changes into your life.

Speaker 1  8:49  
You know. I mean, it's not that I drink often, but when I do drink, for me, as I'm getting older, I know for me, I notice the physical differences, like what I can and can't handle anymore. You know, in terms of my sleep, I know if I'm drinking white wine at dinner, I'm not gonna have a good night of sleep. And you know, I probably attribute that to the sugar, and it probably does affect my blood sugar levels. So, you know, I commit if I'm gonna have a glass of white wine, I know that I'm not gonna have a good night of sleep. Which leads me to the whole super curious trend. So as someone who is in recovery, what are your thoughts on? Kind of like, a trend that they're I don't want to say Jumping on, because I respect people who are doing it, but like, How does someone in recovery feel about the trend of sober curious? Well, you know,

Speaker 2  9:35  
I think it's good, because I think there's a mix. There's a people that people that don't rely on it, and there's people that do rely on and are curious. Like for years I was sober, curious. I would look at people online to see who was successful and who wasn't while being sober. So that was kind of I started that in my early 30s, all these successful people that were sober, they never touched a drop of alcohol. The thing is, is right now, the younger generation is just not drinking like we the. Older generation was doing, right? So it's kind of like, it's, that's where you're not and you're sober, curious, and you're not really much of a drinker, then you don't need to do it, you know. Like, it's like you can do so many other things in this world that don't revolve around alcohol, you know. So it's like you don't need to go to a bar and get like, when I was younger, I used to think, oh, that person doesn't drink. They're not having any fun. I have more fun now. I'm more social now than I I've always been a social person, but more social now than I've ever been in my entire life. I'm more confident in my skin. I'm more confident in who I am. I can talk to anybody now, you know, like, it's like you're not missing out. So if you if you don't have a problem, then that's awesome. Congratulations. But you know, like, I think, just go with it. I'm going to be starting sober events soon in the spring. So sober events for people who are sober, whether they're sober, curious or sober, or they just don't drink, they want to meet somebody else, or just make friends that just don't do those things as well. That's where I'm at. I

Speaker 1  10:58  
love that you say that because, you know, I have three teens, my oldest being 17, she's going to university next year, and I do see the difference in their drinking as opposed to our drinking, and say, high school and things like that, a fun night isn't dependent on whether or not they're drinking, whereas when we were growing up it was. And it's funny, because I feel like that still continues with our generation. I remember going to a Christmas party. It was only a few years ago. I want to say it was maybe 10 years ago. So I was in my 30s and not being a drinker. I was always kind of, you know, I remember the host was like, have a glass of wine. I was like, No, I'm good. I'm just, you know, I can't remember, I was drinking pop or or water or something and, and kind of like that laugh of like, oh, Atlanta. Like the rolling of the eyes, like, Oh, she's no fun. You know what I mean. And I don't see that in this generation. You're almost like, boring and not fun if you didn't drink when we were growing up in that stage in High School University. Whereas I don't see that as much with this generation. So I also am all for people who are joining the sober cures, whether it be, you know, the non alcoholic drinks, whether it be just taking a break from it for a certain amount of time, going to different sober events, finding people who are also on the sober, curious or just sober trend as them. I think that's great, because I feel like if we would have done that when we were younger, it's like, you're almost looked at like a loser if you're not drinking. Do you know what I

Speaker 2  12:31  
mean? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And even like, yeah, I quit drinking. People were uncomfortable around me. They were uncomfortable if they come up to me and be like, Oh, I'm only having these. I have few people come to me and be like, I'm only having a couple of. Having a couple of these drinks tonight. And and I was like, I don't care what you do. I care what I do. Like, this is because of me that I'm doing this. So, yeah, people just feel uncomfortable. Like our generation feels more because that's what we did. We just drink, went to parties and drink. So it's, it's just a different generation. So it

Speaker 1  13:01  
really is, did you find that when you made that, that change of going sober, did you find you had to really change your environment and those you hung around with?

Speaker 2  13:08  
I honestly didn't. I still, I didn't deprive myself of going out with everybody. I didn't deprive myself. I still went out some nights. I went up till like two o'clock in the morning, like, still hanging out with everyone, like when I quit smoking, the same thing. I still went out. Everyone goes out for a smoke. I still go out with them to go and like, stand there and sometimes smell the thing right. But I didn't want to deprive myself, because I knew that I would be more apt to going back to drinking because I missed it and I was cutting myself out completely. But I did still hang out with the same people. I eventually changed a bunch of them my girlfriends now are more the type that will go out and drink and then not drink for like, another month or so, whereas social drink, yeah, they're social drinkers. Whereas before, I was hanging out with people who drink as much as I did, or, you know, like, so it's kind of it's a little bit different now, and it's nice. And even some of them are, I've got a few sober friends, so it's kind of nice. I just like just to go out and do things that are active, as opposed to going out to the bars. So yeah, I had to make that change. But it was a good change.

Speaker 1  14:07  
That's good to hear. And so if a woman is kind of at that stage of okay, I need to make some serious changes in my life in terms of my relationship with drinking. What are some first steps that you feel that she should do?

Speaker 2  14:20  
Seek support groups. I think support groups are really good. So not everyone wants to do a support group, like an AA or an NA, but I did it. I did it because I went in with my brother to support him. I was still drinking for the first six months. Eventually, I changed. I was like, I was mad at myself because I was supposed to quit September 1. I didn't quit till September 10 that year, and because I was making excuses. So I know it's like trying to put it off and then, but the support groups are really good for me, like he stopped shortly after that, and I continued. So that actually became an addiction for me to keep on going and just having that support and having other people around, you know, like, now there's more people out there that are sober, so even today, I was tagged in a. A post on Facebook, someone's looking for someone who understands addiction and can help kind of in that journey. So you know, there's, there are more people out there. So just reaching out social media and doing all that, you'll meet people that have gone through it, the people that don't have a problem won't always understand what someone who has a problem is going through. So sometimes there's

Speaker 1  15:20  
judgment that's like anything in life, right? Unless you go through it in life, you just don't get it. You

Speaker 2  15:24  
don't get it. It's just like death, like you don't realize until someone dies, how exactly how it feels. And you know, people say things to you, and you're like, what'd you say that for? But they haven't lost somebody. So it's like, Yes, try and seek those people that are going through the same things. And then you'll, it'll grow like you'll meet more people, and you'll there'll be more events, and there'll be more things to go to in order to kind of keep on track and set goals for yourself. Set goals, but you need somebody to help you make you accountable for those actions. So seeking someone in it, like maybe in a support group, or someone else who is sober will help you be accountable for your actions,

Speaker 1  16:00  
yeah, and have those conversations. You know, we had a past episode on divorce, and so I'm noticing kind of a trend, I think in a lot of the topics that are we talking about on this podcast, is these topics are kind of shunned. And, you know, there's the stigma surrounding them, where people don't want to say, I am in recovery, or I am divorced or and I think that these conversations are important, not to say that you need to go scream from the rooftop if you don't want to, but you know, having open conversation about it will attract others who are going through it, and that support is so important. Yeah,

Speaker 2  16:37  
there's like, people now that, like Mel Robbins or Gabby Bernstein that, like, kind of like, they've been so open about their experiences in life that they for them sharing their experiences in life, they've kind of opened the door for people to realize that it's okay to talk about this. Yeah, you know, like, you're not the only one going through divorce. You're not the only one that's in recovery or is struggling with alcohol or drugs. You know, it's just you got to find the right people to, yeah, sometimes it takes a bit, but you will. And what if

Speaker 1  17:07  
you're someone who is watching someone go through this? So what steps should that person take to help that individual, like you did with your brother?

Speaker 2  17:16  
Unfortunately, you can't do much until they hit rock bottom. You can be there's a support and, you know, like you can, there's only so much you can do as a family or a friend. But like they said, they have to do this on their own. Basically, it's like, if you want to help them, look for support groups or other people, like, reach out and just say, hey, you know, like, I've got this person here that is doing this, like someone like myself, who's a recovery coach, be there and listen to what the person has to say. Like, withhold the judgment. Basically, is what it is. Just withhold that judgment so that person feels comfortable enough to share as much as they can for you to help them get the help. Because sometimes they can do it on their own, but sometimes they just need somebody to kind of push them a little bit like they need somebody to hold their hand to get them to where they need to be.

Speaker 1  18:00  
Yeah. And I think too, as you said, like start off by educating yourself that might help you kind of withhold that judgment. And are you able to touch on, you know, I'm going to be talking to many menopause experts, but as a woman enters menopause, are you able to touch on, you know, how alcohol affects that age group? Well,

Speaker 2  18:20  
it definitely exasperates the hot flashes, the sleep deprivation, the symptoms from menopause, as I was getting older for myself, but I was probably perimenopause at that time, and, you know, just going to sleep. I would go to sleep and pass out to about one or 130 in the morning, wake up, and then I would go back to sleep, or I just want to sleep at all. So it really, really affects your body. When you're drinking, if you decide to quit, and you're going through menopause, leading a healthier lifestyle, eating properly, and just all those things will help with any symptoms that come with with menopause.

Speaker 1  18:55  
Yeah, I will say probably one of the biggest sleep busters of not sleeping during menopause, and there's many when we get into hormone shifts and hot flashes and environment and things like that, is alcohol. So yes, alcohol might help you fall asleep a lot easier, but as it leaves our system while we're sleeping, it's going to cause more fragmented sleep and cause more wake ups throughout the night. And then we get the busy brains, and then we get the inabilities to fall back asleep. It also can heighten any kind of sleep disorders like restless leg, which can increase in risk as we get older and get into that midlife stage. So definitely can improve things like sleep, as you said, like hot flashes, regulating Burke temperature, all of those things to curb the drinking or completely cut it out during that midlife stage, for sure. Yeah. So we are in recovery. We are taking those stages. And now there's this, you know, again, a big theme of this podcast too, is is rediscovery of oneself as we better our lives going. Through midlife, right? It's really a new beginning. You know? What are some steps that they can take to rediscover themselves?

Speaker 2  20:06  
You know what? First thing is so important for me is goal setting goal. Set your goals that what you want out of life. Short term, like day to day goals, short term, when I say short term, three to six months, and then long term, let's say a year, journaling, mindful practices, you know, just I started meditating. For me, that was really big, and that helped me. I'm really add. So for me, it just kind of balanced me out a little bit more, a better calming start to my day, as opposed to when I would wake up in the morning and I would be upset with myself because I drink too much. So really, and also rekindling any old interests. You know, I'm really artsy. I kind of put that aside for a long time, and now I'm starting to really get back into the arts. I love going to art galleries, and, like, fashion is really big for me. So I really kind of, and I go to other like, fashion shows in Toronto, and do the runways, and just all the fun stuff so for me, it's super fun

Speaker 1  21:02  
finding joy, right? Finding joy in our day to day. And it could be, in a small way, it could be going to a fashion show. It could be anyway, but yeah, finding that joy and happiness. I

Speaker 2  21:11  
walk every day. So I live on the water, so I walk every day along the beach here in Burlington. I do 5k in the morning, and then I do 5k sometimes at night, if I have time, but I do that, and I think that's so good. It's grounding for me. It's just, it's that self care for myself. It just as you get older, I think you just appreciate those things. Because I just want to be Zen in a way, you know, just kind of like balanced and just just your self care. Is your self care so, so important. And now, like for myself, I just quit eating sugar. So that's all for you. That's hard, super hard.

Unknown Speaker  21:46  
I need to do that. And

Speaker 2  21:48  
I was gaining weight, and I was like, this is getting out of hand. So now it's I'm trying to do the no sugar. Sometimes I'll have a little bit of sugar, but that is really my mindset. I've noticed a big difference in my mindset with no sugar as well.

Speaker 1  22:02  
I mean, a few things too, with self care. I think often when we think of self care, we're thinking of, you know, facials and getting our nails done. And yes, that's all part of self care, for sure. But a big part of self care is just making adjustments to your normal lifestyle activities. So like with you nutrition, cutting out sugar, incorporating more physical activity into your day, curbing social media, maybe a little bit, right? Auditing your news feed, time boxing, you know, when we check in with social media and when we don't? So self care is a lot more than just that massage, which everyone should put time in for a massage, for sure. I agree, but I think that's important. And same with meditation. You know, I love that you mentioned walking, because walking is a big part of my life too. It's something that I've actually done since I was a teenager. I mean, we're both in Burlington, so I'm looking at it the mountains and mountains of snow right now. So walking has not been part of my life for a couple of weeks, and I'm feeling it. I'm getting a little squirrely, but for me, that's my meditation. I think often when we hear the term meditation or mindful thinking that in itself can feel overwhelming, because it's like something new, we have to learn that maybe we're like, I can't fit that in my day, but I think it's important to like you said. Walking for you is your zen. It's how you ground yourself. Walking, it could be the simple act of crafts, as you said, you're getting back into art. So could it be painting or crafting, or baking or cooking, just allowing yourself to do a calming activity that brings you joy, that brings you that happiness, that I think we all need to put more into our lives daily, that just allows us to be in a more grounded and present state of mind that in itself could be meditation. I think that's important for sure. Yeah. And

Speaker 2  23:44  
you know, too, one thing too, is boundaries. So I've learned

Speaker 1  23:49  
boundaries speak to that. I love that you said that I'm

Speaker 2  23:52  
a yes person. I'm always like, yes. I can help you with this. Yes. And then I spread myself out so thin. So I've learned boundaries and like red flags those in the last four years, I've really been more alert to all that stuff, and I'm happy because now I'm more open to saying no, I can't do that. I have to focus on me, you know, and I don't need to explain to anybody. So just saying no, that's all you have to do. Say no. So boundaries are really important, very, very important.

Speaker 1  24:21  
I'm nodding and smiling so hard during this because that is something that I have worked so hard on in this past year, is setting those boundaries. Boundaries, for sure, is huge. And I do feel that as we get older, more and more women are understanding the importance of setting those boundaries and setting those limits for our own space, which is regardless of what you're going through, I think is so, so important. So, yes, well, this was lovely. What's one piece of advice that you would give to a woman listening right now who is perhaps considering going sober, getting into recovery? What would you recommend to them? Do

Speaker 2  24:55  
it absolutely. Do it like it's the best thing you're ever gonna do for yourself. Safe. So go in. Don't take baby steps. Just go right into it. And honestly, like it's the best thing you're ever going to do for yourself. Look up if you want to do support groups. Go look up support groups. There's also social media where you can find other people who are sober. There's a friend who is sober, she's doing sober walks, you know, like there's, there's always something that you can be doing. So just go in there in full force. Take a look online. See what there is out there that you enjoy doing. Do it and reach out to you. Yeah, yeah. And reach out to me exactly. So I'm here. And where can everybody do that? So you can look on sober me. So, so it's www, dot, sober me.ca, and then you can always reach me on my email, which is Caroline at sober me.ca but I'm also I have a YouTube page as well. So silver me 11 is my YouTube page where I share parts of my journey, just tips, facts, but you can also find me on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, under sober me.ca

Speaker 1  25:55  
Well, thank you so much, and all that information will be available in the show notes for this episode. Thank you, Caroline for joining us. Find new episodes of the bedtime edit every other Monday. Follow and subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts you.